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Tuesday, August 14, 2007

Stroller Dog Chicken

So my neighborhood streets are like sometimes like all cloggy with strollers during the day. Some fancy ones. Some doublewides. Some jalopys. And some regulars whatevers. They're all over the place.

Now I know being a Mom is a way hard job (actually no I don't. in fact, i'm not even close to having any idea about that) but sometimes there's a right-of-way problem I'm sensing from stroller moms. Stroller moms feel like their stroller gets right of way all the time. Like their stroller should be parting the Red Sea of sidewalk people! Look out old man! Heads up crazy lady! Better crutch yourself over to the sidewalk, Crutchy! Look out fake happy couple! I'm plowing through! I'm... Stroller Mommmm!

I agree that if I'm walking down the street by myself I should step aside for a stroller mom. I feel the same way about someone walking down the street with bags of stuff or whatever. I'll step aside. I get it. The more you're dealing with the more rights you should have sidewalkwise. But when it comes to me walking my dog I feel like right of way is sort of debatable.

So lately, I've been testing things out a little by playing a light game of chicken with stroller moms. If we're heading directly toward each other on the sidewalk I take note. Who's gonna flinch first? We make eyecontact. We head straight at each other. And there's one thing I learned. Ain't no stopping stroller moms! They go straight. I always flinch-- then weave with Roscoe. For all I know stroller mom would run him right over.

Yes, I realize the stresses of Motherhood (no I don't) and just getting from point A to point B is a hassle. But that doesn't mean you own the roads (or sidewalks) stroller mom! There's some of us out there that may not be pushing a stroller on wheels but controlling a unpredictable animal with a friggin rope around its neck to steer! It's harder for me to get out of your way than for you to get out of mine! Maybe! You push left. Push right. I yank aside an animal on a leash. You tell me who should be weaving out of the way for who! (or is it whom) Whatever. It's at least a toss-up?

ok bye!


Anonymous Mr Ambulance Driver said...

Stroller moms at Disney world are the worst...

August 14, 2007 8:50 PM  
Blogger Manic Daze said...

I cannot stand stroller moms :)

August 14, 2007 8:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I seem to have a problem with the oncoming walkers NEVER yielding for me, but I better get the fuggouda their way. Like they know I'm weak like that, and they take the bully route. Actually had a woman body-check me while I was trying to get down a crowded aisle. She had room. She just didn't give a crap. I almost got into a fight with her. It's like, if I didn't yield, then I'm the douchebag.
I notice that stroller DADS are more considerate.
Maybe they're too busy using the baby/ies as chick bait.

August 14, 2007 9:22 PM  
Anonymous Rose's Mom said...

Didn't you kmow they are not strollers, they are battering rams!

August 14, 2007 9:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

something tells me that its also location. in my small canadian city, we have lots of stroller moms and 99% of the time they have the right of way, but its not like we are fighting over a small amount of space, so its just as easy and considerate to move aside for them. i imagine some place like nyc it would be much more aggressive, but more strange, since the kid in the stroller is at least 2 or 3 feet ahead of you, it would be harder to protect the kid from oncoming crazies or unpredictable people or cars jutting out of traffic.. the kid gets hit first. kind of strange, semi dangerous to use your kid as a crowd braker.

August 14, 2007 9:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think this is a symptom of a deeper underlying issue- the sense of entitlement parents seem to have. Procreation is a choice. It is the most basic of choices which separates us from animals. People shouldn't be rewarded because they CHOSE to have a child.

(side rant: People who have children should have to pay more in taxes as opposed to less. Why am I paying for the education of some child when the parents of said child can't afford a decent education (and therefore shouldn't have had children in the first place)?)

Why should people with strollers have right of way? Any other wheeled devices on the sidewalk need to yeild right of way, and so should they.

You go Todd! Make those breeders steer off the sidewalk!

August 14, 2007 9:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nonbreaders have no rights! Jones, Mandy's kid was sick today I need you to finish up her TPS Reports by tomorow morning. You can stay late.

August 14, 2007 10:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This doesn't just apply to stroller moms... a lot of people think they have the right of way. But the next time you're out, try this: DON'T make eye contact. Pretend to not be paying close attention where you're walking... look up a little or out into the street. Watch how people get out of your way.

The only thing to be careful of is are other people who really AREN'T looking where they're going. They'll cream you. Just keep them in your peripheral vision and move if you absolutely must.

August 14, 2007 11:41 PM  
Anonymous Rose's Mom said...

Breeders have a sense of entitlement. It's the "I have a baby so I'm more important than you" syndrome. It is pandemic in the Dallas area.

August 14, 2007 11:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kinda like when they think it is okay to fly with screaming infants.

August 15, 2007 12:02 AM  
Anonymous damnit! said...




August 15, 2007 12:37 AM  
Anonymous Kimbee said...

I think if I was a stroller mom, I'd be ready to ram most people, too.

August 15, 2007 12:38 AM  
Anonymous stephanie said...

Hello? Strollers are heavy! It is not easy to swerve and also it can knock a kid around - bad idea if they are eating or sleeping in the stroller.

Please don't forget that strollers weight at least 15-25 LBS and then the kid is another 10-30 LBS. Swerving is not easy esp if the mom is ALSO carrying a heavy diaper bag.

Have the courtesy to easily and simply step out of the way of the Mother and Child. Think about when you are struggling at the grocery store with a heavy cart, and someone is crossing your path carrying nothing or a hand basket. How easy is it to swerve around someone when your cart is heavy? How easy is it to step out of the way of a heavy cart?

These are the questions you must ponder.

August 15, 2007 12:44 AM  
Anonymous casey said...

I can't stand most of these new strollers that are 'in' nowadays. As a server, I can promise you how annoying it is to see these minivechicles roll through the front door. These yuppy mom's are oblivious to the fact that storing these monstrosities while they eat are a pain and they are always in the way. What happened to the small, compact strollers like the one my mom used with me? I miss those!

August 15, 2007 1:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Won't somebody please think of the children!"

August 15, 2007 1:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Move aside my precious little snowflake's comming through.

August 15, 2007 1:37 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think you are reading far too much into it. Ladies first, afterall.

August 15, 2007 2:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Everyone make way! Why? Because raising a child is so haaaaard and THE MOST IMPORTANT JOB IN THE WORLD!!


I wonder how parents cope in countries w/out electricity, running water, and MONSTROUS SUV STROLLERS!!

August 15, 2007 6:02 AM  
Blogger Refflection said...

Wow, this society really doesn't do well to teach people to respect parents. Obviously all of you calling us "breeders" are harboring some inner hatred for your parents and you're taking it out on us. I don't call myself a "stroller mom" because I've used a stroller a total of about 7 times in the 6 months my baby has been in this world - instead I carry her most of the time. Yes, we do have the right of way because guess what? We're doing the hardest job there is. And don't argue with me about that until you have kids of your own. It is freakin tough taking care of children, and sidestepping may wake up a baby and throw your whole carefully balanced day off. When you spent 2 hours trying to get your baby to sleep, believe me you don't want them to wake up. It's much easier for you to walk around us than it is for us to walk around you. And as far as dogs are concerned, they belong in parks and fields rather than crowded streets.

If you don't think people should have kids, then I suggest you do us all a favor and abort yourself. Obviously you believe your mother should have done that long ago so what's the holdup?

No respect, I tell ya.

August 15, 2007 6:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The rules (implied social contract) are the same as on the road - everyone stay to their right except when passing! Pass only when there is no oncoming traffic! Brain dead simple!

Why don't people get it!?!?!


PS: Stay to left, as appropriate, in other countries.

August 15, 2007 6:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stroller moms " Ha Ha " - Nelson

August 15, 2007 7:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Right there with you, Refflection. Right on.

August 15, 2007 8:20 AM  
Anonymous Kat said...

I'd LIKE to believe it's a built-in New Yorker aggression, because if you hesitate, the whole throng of people would blow past Stroller Mom if she stopped. However, I find that most parents feel their adorable little shits are the most important thing in the world, and everyone should revolve around them. This is crystalized by the idiots that push the stroller out into oncoming traffic, because it's my baby, and you should stop your entire lives for us!

Then again, I generally feel that pet owners act the same way about their pets. So perhaps she's thinking the same thing about your and your dog. At least her kid poops in a diaper instead of on my friggin' lawn.

August 15, 2007 8:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So when did walking down the sidewalk become a team sport?
Show everyday consideration for others and they usually will for you; sometimes they don't but don't let that wilt your cornflakes. EVERYONE is entitled to have a bad day once in a while: strollermoms, kids, OddTodd, anti-breeders, kranky old farts, etc.
Remember when you were an asshole for no reason and nobody kicked your ass? Well pay it forward.
Done and done.

August 15, 2007 8:56 AM  
Blogger Papa Zook said...

I am a stroller dad and I live in Georgia and I am constantly dodging other pedestrians. Walking styles are very different out here, mostly I think people are just oblivious. The craziest thing about NY Stoller mom's is when they push the stroller out into traffic - I watched a cab screech to a stop inches from a stroller ... crazy that. Here is a picture of my crazy mongo stroller that people don't move ont of the way for:

August 15, 2007 9:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hardest job in the world...who made that bullshit up...Billions of people can do how is that the hardest job there is.

People living in shacks with dirt floors can do it

People living in huts in the sand can do it

People living on remote islands can do it

Yet those wh have washers, dryers, daycare, disposable diapers, powered forumlas, food ready made in jars etc etc are the main ones complaining about how freakin hard the job is.

Guess what really isnt that hard to raise a single hild...its morons who have 2 close together, or 3 or 4, or have twins, triplets etc...then its hard.

You have one child and live in a nice house with a partner who works 50 hours a week to support you and your precious child...think yourselves LUCKY!

...and if I hear another American housewife moan about the amount of time it takes to do Laundry I will scream...washer, dryer, put away...yeah, really hard!

August 15, 2007 9:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

that would be powdered formulas...

August 15, 2007 9:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Papa ...

I believe the NYC stroller moms push into traffic because they secretly despise their offspring and are looking for an easy out.

August 15, 2007 9:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My wife is young (early 30's) but has to walk with a cane. It never fails that when we are in a public space (sidewalk, mall, etc), some mom shoves a stroller right into her.

Being a parent and having a kid does NOT give someone the right of way. On the contrary, strollers tend to get IN THE WAY of all of the other walking traffic.

That said, walking a dog doesn't give you the right of way either, Todd. When you have a stroller, a dog, a shopping cart, a cane, or anything that can impede other people's trafic flow, it's your job to get to the side so that others can get through.

August 15, 2007 9:42 AM  
Anonymous MasterKrunk said...

You should spray whipped cream all over Roscoe's face and put bright red contact lenses in his eyes and play a recording of growling and snarling. Then people will get out of your way in a hurry.

P.S. EVERYONE has that same sense of entitlement.

August 15, 2007 9:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Agree with the anon (above)...

Think of it as the SLOW LANE. Crips, moms, and other misfits just make it harder on the rest of us.

August 15, 2007 9:45 AM  
Blogger swinter said...

I find it interesting that just about everyone critical of stroller moms are named 'anonymous' while the defenders of stroller moms are logged in with real names. I think that really speaks volumes as to the people who are voicing their opinions on this subject.

August 15, 2007 9:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, it means some of us are smart enough not to have Google accounts.


August 15, 2007 10:05 AM  
Anonymous Joanna1121 said...

oh brother Swinter, as if the names are really real names! I'm -uh- Joanna Conners from NYC and found Moms just either knock into you or they stop dead center on a narrow sidewalk to talk to their kid or to give them cheerios - what a Cheerio emergency that can't wait two seconds so that you can move the stroller to the side. I think, either due to tiredness or sense of entitlement, Moms don't care anything about the world, only the bit that affects the welfare her family.

And to respond to parenting being a hard job, I don't denied that it may be, but it was a choice - noone forced you to have a kid so what's with the bitching and moaning?

August 15, 2007 10:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's because all women secretly believe they are the center of the universe. Duh.

August 15, 2007 10:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some parents are just plain rude and have no manners and let their kids do whatever they want.

Like when you go to the movies and a kid is kicking your chair and the parents don't say a thing. I just want to grab the kids foot and just hold it the entire movie.

FOR ONCE, this weekend, at a baseball game, I had two parents behind me that kept telling their kid to be careful and not kick the seat in front of them (me) and appologized when he did. So nice and refreshing for a change, decent parents that teach their kids social manners. And they were Red Sox fans!

August 15, 2007 10:43 AM  
Anonymous TexasGirl said...

We all pay taxes to pay for the all children's education because a civilized society cares for and prepares its next generation.

Jeez, people. You need to read some more Plato.

August 15, 2007 10:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Plato is dead (and good riddance)!

And since our leaders continue to gut education and run with the money, we produce poorly educated children, and I want a refund on my taxes.

August 15, 2007 10:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The stroller, baby plus gear are heavy to move and who wants to wake them or disturb eating by moving left and right all the time... Unless there's a 120lb dog coming towards them. Then leverage is discovered on that rear axle and suddenly they're light and easy to maneuver.

August 15, 2007 11:01 AM  
Anonymous texasgirl said...

What a grumpy bunch of posters the last few days, Todd.

Kinda sad since you're generally an upbeat guy.

Good vibes to you and Roscoe.

August 15, 2007 11:08 AM  
Anonymous Andy said...

This reminds me of a time when I was riding the bus and a blind woman got on. Everyone made way for the blind woman. Then at the next stop, a handicapped guy in a wheelchair got on, and the blind lady had to make way for the wheelchair guy. It made me wonder how often blind lady gets beat out for handicap right-of-way.

August 15, 2007 11:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good question.

What is the pecking order of crips?

It seems to me the deaf are probably at the bottom of the crippled food-chain. Hardly anyone cries for them (not that they could hear us).

August 15, 2007 11:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

People generally suck. Living on a crowded planet can be harsh.

I have NO sympathy for the effing breeders.

Watch out, breeders! I'll eat your baby!

August 15, 2007 11:38 AM  
Blogger MD said...

Wow! Who thought there was such hatred between people who have children, and people who don't! I'm past the stroller age, but I followed the laws of common courtesy...I always paid attention to where I was pushing the stroller, and if it was easier for me to get out of the way, then I did so. I have a feeling these "stroller moms" Todd speaks of are the same kind of people who are rude in traffic, rude in whatever situation. A lot of people are so self absorbed they have forgotten common courtesy, whether there's a stroller involved or not.

August 15, 2007 11:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok women need to first understand chivalry is dead and women killed it. Women first is as antiquated as not allowing women to vote, you want equality own up to being equal. The issue here is “consideration” Todd has it right that the bigger carrier of burden gets right away, that burden is open for debate but finite things like waking the baby don’t figure in the equation. I believe that both parties should look to the most considerate option when faced with such a dilemma as to who moves,this would reduce the amount of consternation possibly for both parties. Having children is not a miracle any more so than a bowel movement is, the activity takes place daily around the world and doesn’t fit the description of a miracle so please stop deluding yourselves into thinking that you and your DNA have somehow done the world a favor by breeding. Currently America has the highest incarceration rate of any industrialized nation, those are someone’s little angels. Your current Politicians and CEOS we hear constant grumblings about were raised by American parents, get off your high horse you have done a poor job for the most part thus far and you are not special.

August 15, 2007 11:51 AM  
Anonymous Vanilla Ice said...

Word to your mother.

August 15, 2007 11:57 AM  
Anonymous weeze said...

there are some people who send around baby photos too much to those kodak slideshows pages. i dont need to see your kid with chocalate all over his mug ten times.

August 15, 2007 12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is a lot of friction between people with and without children. I am in my late 30s and I know that childre nare raised completely different these days. Children used to be taught how to show respect and to not cause complete chaos no matter where they are at. It seems that parenting styles have changed and a lot (NOT ALL) of parents think it is okay to let their children do whatever they want. For instance running around a crowded restuarant, screaming and kicking the seat in front of them on an airplane and the list goes on and on. This causes a lot of friction among us childless members of society. I was raised in a household that was full of respect for oneself and others. That has been completely lost in todays society.

And I am tired of parents walking around thinking they are entitled because they are parents. I can go on and on but I won't. A perfect example is a post above that said parenting is the hardest job in the world and that everyone should respect that. Well being a parent is a choice! And me not wanting children is a choice. I am not a hater od kids I am a hater of bad parents and parents who walk around acting like they are entitled. That if I have a child then I have certain rights. That is what really pisses off us childless members of society.

August 15, 2007 12:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The passive aggression from alot of moms (and I'm a mom) in general really gets to me. There is nothing quite like going to the public swimming pool changing room after the mommy/baby swim. I have been forced out of the changing room by balloon breasted milkers shoving my stuff to the floor to make way for their crap.
Al the Cat

August 15, 2007 12:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it's harder to steer a baby stroller than it is to herd a dog out of the way. Those things are hard to push sometimes!

August 15, 2007 12:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the strollers are hard to push stop packing the entire frickin apartment in it. I mean jealous christ how much crap do you need to haul around. My favorite is when it is a double stroller with tons of bags hanging on the handles literally taking up almost the entire sidewalk in NYC! Or better yet during rush hour two moms walking at snails pace next to each other talking and pushing their strollers expecting everyone to basically walk into the street to get around them.

August 15, 2007 12:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay, so a stroller is hard to push and steer. What ever happened to STOPPING? If the vehicle you are operating is beyond your ability to control (automobile, lawnmower, baby-stroller) then you should yield to those who have control.

Maybe their should be stroller classes, and parents should be properly certified and licensed before operating a stroller.

But, I am biased. I think prospective parents should pass a series of psychological tests and financial background checks before being allowed to to create another life. If life is "precious" then it shouldn't be in the hands of any old couple with interlocking genitals. People should be QUALIFIED before procreating

August 15, 2007 12:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow! This is a big heated topic.

I am a while I cannot claim to have children...I AM the one raising them!

So here are a few truths:
1. Strollers are not hard to move, unless they are loaded with crap you do not need. I work mon-fri 7AM-10PM I get Sat-Sun off. When I come back on Mon I generally spend 10 minutes unloading all the crap the Mom has put into the stroller. I also try to use the fold up umbrella stroller as much as possible and not the gigantic SUV $1000 stroller preferred by the Mom.

2. No one chooses to fly with a screaming baby you effing moron! If you need to get somewhere in less than 3 days and you have a kid then you have to fly. You work to do everything you can to prevent crying, like having the baby drink a bottle during take off and touch down to prevent their ears hurting ect...but guess what babies did you so ge the eff over it.

3. Most parents do have an over inflated sense of entitlement. I agree for the most part certainly in most of the 1st world, no one is forced to breed.

4. Guess what are also making a choice! You are not adding to the diversification of the gene pool or creating workers to support your sorry old asses when you are in the old age home and need someone to feed you, cuz there are no kids to take care of you. So pray some else had the kids and that they have been well educated and taught to have compassion and care for some cranky old stranger. Watch the movie - Children of Men.

5. Sadly people with insane money seem to make the worst parents.

6. taking care of kids is hard work, and mind numbing and sometimes you wish you could just put a nail in your brain to stop the buzzing.

7. I find that breeders and non-breeders alike (basically the population at large) today have fewer manners and consideration for anyone but themselves.

8. Parents are NOT disrespected in this world...give me an effing break much more do you feel the world should change for you???? The world is set up for kids...for gods sake they even tried for 10 years to make VEGAS a family town! LOL But seriously...single people and people without kids in the workplace are also expected to pick up the slack...I am not saying that is wrong but how about some RESPECT for about a Thank you, I know you had to stay late to finish that project yesterday. My roommate is always getting the short end of that stick.

Okay so that is at least a few points of my perspective sitting here in the middle cat seat.

- Michie (no Google account, but I sign my rants! grins)

August 15, 2007 1:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To md, regarding the hostility between parents and non-parents:

I believe we are witnessing the beginnings of a paradigm shift regarding parenthood. According to projections, the world's population is going to double in 10 years and double again in 5 more. Within our lifetimes, we are going to see over 20,000,000,000 people walking the Earth. You think resources are scarce now, just look at what's coming by 2020.

I believe we are going to see a new respect for homosexuals, loosening of child-adoption restrictions, and the entire world will follow the inhibitory parental laws we now see in China. I believe suicide will become legal and abortion, mandatory. And I believe we will see these things within our lifetimes.

People being annoyed with pushy parents and those parents feeling hen-pecked by the general public is just the beginning.

August 15, 2007 1:20 PM  
Anonymous TexasGirl said...

It's "Whom." Whom is the direct object of "weaving."

August 15, 2007 1:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

whom is used when you don't know who the person will be.

August 15, 2007 1:59 PM  
Anonymous Adamant said...

Too many anons in this forum! Log in! Dont be a pussy!

August 15, 2007 2:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why does it matter if you post anonymous or not. I seriously doubt anyone is posting under their true name. It doesn't change the arguement. I still think parents walk around as if they are entitled and that the rest of the world shouoldl do everything they can to accomodate their every need. Its a bunch of crap. The attitude with the strollers crosses over to every part of their lives. I love how parents leave work or come in late due to their children and the company doesn't say a word. Why is time spent raising children acceptable over the way I spend my time. Companies act like time lost at work due ot child rearing is okay but as a childless member of society I think leaving work to get my run in or to have sex with my girlfriend is just as valid. Time spent raising kids is not any more important as the way I spend my time.

August 15, 2007 2:24 PM  
Anonymous adament said...

Does this make me brave?


August 15, 2007 2:31 PM  
Anonymous CJ said...

I am getting used to this blog format. Maybe keep it tODD?

August 15, 2007 2:53 PM  
Anonymous I'm bringing peace back! said...

So as usual, I come back from lunch and decide to check out Odd Todd's site. And little did I know I would be sitting here for the past 20 minutes reading all the comments everyone has about strollers, parenting, children, taxes, poverty, luxery etc.

Thank God we live in the country we live in. That we actually have the time and ability to complain in an online community the problems with our nation's side walks.

I agree everyone has a right to their opinion. Whether you are a 'breeder' (and just for the record, I cannot believe people are using that term. I think that's awful, I don't have kids, but I would never judge anyone who does by calling them names) or a non-breeder.

I know it sounds cheesy, but why can't we all just get a long???

Parents are very important, don't you think your parents are important and all the sacrifices they made for you. And just because you choose not to bring a child into the world, does that justify abusing the people who do and vice versa.

It's all about choice. And I think if everyone would just make the choice, to be a little more tolerant of the choices other people make regardless if we agree with them or not. Then possibly we could find a more stimulating topic of conversation.

Peace Love and Equality for All.

God Bless the USA!

August 15, 2007 3:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to the person just back from lunch:

i think i love you. well said.

August 15, 2007 3:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

FYI, I love the term Breeder and non-breeders...

Breeder was a term coined by the GL community as a recourse for slang thrown at them.

I am not gay but as a single non-parent I have adopted it and use it frequently...most often with my breeder friends! Who by the way get the best end of the deal with me even in friendship!

Shall I open the next pandora's box!

well how about just a crack...

1. When you invite me for about if 1 time out of 10 I am not your kids entertainment for the evening, and you actually engage me in the kind of conversations we had before you became a breeder!

2. Let's talk about gifts (oooo this one is good folks) birthdays, christmas, etc....I buy a christmas/birthday present for each kid and one for you and one for the spouse...and you get me a gift from the "family"..oh and then there are the baby showers, the christianings, the wedding shower, the wedding gift, the kindergarten graduation (save us all from the every year graduation ceremonies!), first recital....blah blah blah!

3. How about you come over and do my laundry as thank you for everytime I babysit for you, so you and your hubby can have a real adult evening!

4. How about you stop only now having couples only dinner parties now that you need to mix better with the other parents at the kids private school, or hubby's work associates...and then tell me all about them.

5. How about you actually call me and say hey let's catch a movie and not make it a huge production about what to do with the kids. Uhm...don't care this time...

- Michie (no Google account, but I sign my rants)

August 15, 2007 4:39 PM  
Anonymous Vanilla Ice said...

Word to your mother on that too

August 15, 2007 5:16 PM  
Blogger A said...

"I am not a hater of kids I am a hater of bad parents and parents who walk around acting like they are entitled."

I agree. I was taught to be courteous to EVERYONE and have learned that parents aren't teaching empathy to their children and instead teaching them entitlement.

Those who push their values on me (its easier for YOU to do this than for ME to do that) speaks the most for how bad parents are now. It doesn't matter what its easier for ME to do...the only person you are responsible for is yourself and whatever kids you decide to have. (Yes, I'm looking at you, refflection)

If I don't move out of the way, be prepared for that and teach the kid how NOT to do something. Don't ram me and say...serves her right or talk about how I have no respect if I was just absentminded! And don't martyr yourself by saying you're doing the toughest job on earth to do. You chose it.

Yes, I'm glad my mom chose it but I know for a fact that she resigned herself to being the best PERSON she could be in order to be the best MOM for me. She taught me that people like you aren't fit to have kids, especially if you think the world should revolve around you because your baby is asleep and you don't want to wake it. (I find it funny that you think I resent my mom because I don't like breeders...actually, I respect my mom more because I don't like breeders!)

Where is your psych degree from?
Where's your respect for us?

August 15, 2007 5:28 PM  
Anonymous She said...

Wow, people are getting rather vicious here. Just remember that this blog is one person's opinion, and that no matter how much you disagree with it, an opinion is wrong.

I would personally like to note that almost no one in this world is any better than anyone else, and therefore perhaps we ought to have the same respect for each other and stop expecting each other to read minds.

August 15, 2007 6:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just had to respond to the twit "REFLECTION" who said
"And as far as dogs are concerned, they belong in parks and fields rather than crowded streets."

In NYC? Are you nuts? How are they suposed to get to those parks & fields? You are an idiot soccer mom who needs to go far, far away -- and keep having those children, they do so much for your dazzling personality!

you idiot you

August 15, 2007 7:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Just wanted you to know that you've got at least one supporter out here. I think parents and kids are great.

And dogs do not belong on sidewalks. How many times have I stepped in poop from dogs. Gross. If you don't live in dog-friendly conditions (i.e., with a yard), then don't have a dog.

August 15, 2007 8:14 PM  
Anonymous Vegas Dad said...

I have a two year old, so I can speak from experience. Stroller Dads will (typically) go out of their way to stay out of your way. Stroller Moms are generally out of control and will run you down.

One more thing...If your stroller is too heavy to steer, then your kid is way too big to be riding in a stroller. Get him or her out walking like the rest of civilization. I swear I've seen kindergarteners riding in those things

August 15, 2007 8:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"If you don't live in dog-friendly conditions (i.e., with a yard), then don't have a dog."

And if you can't handle the physical, emotional or financial burden of having a kid, don't pop out a kid.

August 15, 2007 8:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, I worked on a fishing boat in Alaska for a year out of college, and THAT was the hardest job ever.

So now my two boys just seem like a walk in the park. I guess it's all based on personal experience. Constant back-breaking work is definitely humbling in a way. I feel that parents that complain constantly and publicly about child-raising aren't cut out for it to begin with and are looking for sympathy.

August 15, 2007 9:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Have you people ever read ? According to her parenting is definitely the world's hardest job.

August 15, 2007 9:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stroller Moms often have this sense of entitlement, just because they are towing a kid around they think they own any area around them within a 20 feet radius.

August 15, 2007 9:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm hating all this hatred!

But, as to the sidewalk issue, Todd, its kids before dogs. When you're facing a stroller mom coming down the sidewalk, you can be fairly sure she's going straight ahead, no bobbing, no weaving, no hesitations - and her kid is not going to slobber on Roscoe. On the other hand, Roscoe could be making a left, a right, a classic doggy circle and double back, or could sniff her kids face (I don't know if Roscoe is a kid face licking kind of dog but they're out there). So, your job as the owner of the unpredictable non-human is to put Roscoe on a "short leash" and get out of the way until the stroller passes.

August 16, 2007 12:51 AM  
Blogger Refflection said...

This post has been removed by the author.

August 16, 2007 1:30 AM  
Blogger Refflection said...

Wow, this is fun.

1. Having a dog is more of a choice than having a kid. It tends to be an accident more often than not, and some of us don't believe in abortion. And don't go saying "well you should have used a condom". Have you used a condom every single time you had sex? Yeah, right. Keep lying to yourself.

2. I have never seen anyone ram anyone on the sidewalk period, but maybe that's because I live in sane northern California instead of NY where the population is 4.7 people per square foot (that's the actual number, folks). In general the more people are in an area, the greater their asshole factor is. Doesn't matter if you have kids or not.

3. I have never personally rammed anyone period, and like I said I CARRY MY BABY 95% of the time. People step around me as they smile at my baby and she smiles back. So far no one's been rude about breastfeeding in public and I'm happy about that. Again, I live in a hippie town where people are nice to each other instead of evil.

4. Streets are for people, esp. in cities. If you decide to have a dog in a place that is mostly people, then have the courtesy to control it. I have had the unpleasant experience of people's dogs jumping up on me and my baby and their owners doing nothing. How do I know they're not going to bite?

5. People in third world countries have it tough, no one's arguing that. If the contest was between me and a Somalian, I'd swerve for her, no questions asked. But how much actual "parenting" do you suppose they do? Do they pick up their children to console them when they're crying? Do they try to keep them happy while cooking dinner? Do they wake up every two hours to breastfeed? As far as I know, those kids spend their days in misery without anyone to love or care for them because their parents are starving to death themselves. This is a whole different topic from doing everything for your children yourself - whereas historically, parenting would be shared by immediate and extended family.

6. To the person who said "I respect my mom more because I don't like breeders" that just makes no sense.

I'm not here to add fuel to the fire, though that's probably exactly what I'm doing. I just don't appreciate people looking down on parents because of their own limited experiences. You have no clue what giving natural birth is like and what the brain chemicals as a result of child rearing are. I don't look upon my child as "my precious", as something to be coveted. I simply see her as what she is - a human being that has more wisdom than me, and depends on me to help her grow into a healthy happy person. Just because you can type the words "you idiot" and "you're a bad parent" doesn't mean you should. And makes you look rather adolescent.

August 16, 2007 1:37 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@Refflection: I'm a parent of two, and there is no excuse for rudeness no matter that you're doing the "most important" or "hardest" job in the world. Keep to one side. It's easy. Feel superior if you'd like because you chose to have kids, but that's no excuse to treat those who didn't like shit. Nice mom.

August 16, 2007 7:46 AM  
Anonymous TexasGirl said...

Love ya, Refflection! Would type more, but I've got two little ones to go care for. But I wanted to tell you that I think you are wise beyond your years.

August 16, 2007 8:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Human being trumps dog every time. Done and done.

August 16, 2007 8:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a stroller mom of 2 kids, and also 2 dogs, I can say that although I don't feel like parenting is the "hardest job in the world," it does sometimes get kind of hard to run errands and stuff with a baby in tow. Everything has to be timed down to the second so as not to conflict with nap time, poopy time, or mealtime, and if you screw it up in the least you wind up with a screaming baby in the supermarket or wherever, a public poop explosion, or sitting on a bench somewhere with your boob out (not my favorite thing to do). Nonetheless, I try to be considerate of others. I get the feeling, perhaps unfairly, that the stroller moms Todd is talking about may be homemakers who are out and about during the day on weekdays. Since I work outside the home, I don't have that privilege, and when I'm running around like a maniac on weekends or in the evening, sometimes I barge in front of people with my stroller despite my generally good intentions. Any consideration anyone gives me on the sidewalk is greatly appreciated. I hope my children are equally considerate of you when you're old and decrepit, drooling on yourself while being pushed around in a wheelchair by a disgruntled home health worker.

August 16, 2007 9:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i dont have a problem moving for a stroller or mom/dad with kids, but i would appreciate a "thanks", or "excuse me" or some type of courteous acknowledgement of the action. having kids is no excuse for being rude. and yes i do know what its like, and i always tried to show my appreciation for people's accomodation.

August 16, 2007 10:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, Todd. They had to keep a living thing inside them for 9 months, then push it out from between their legs. You move for 'em. Unless their kid is a little old for a stroller. You ever see them? Like, they're legs and arms are hanging over the sides. Lady, that kid can clearly walk, give up the stroller already.

August 16, 2007 10:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1. Having a dog is more of a choice than having a kid. It tends to be an accident more often than not, and some of us don't believe in abortion. And don't go saying "well you should have used a condom". Have you used a condom every single time you had sex? Yeah, right. Keep lying to yourself.

Now that is pure wisdom...

Getting pregant is never an "Accident" its the natural consequence of having sex, unintended might be a better term...(why wouldnt you have birth control if you didnt want to get pregnant) so unintended is rather questionable as well.
And just where do you get your facts from you when say "More often than not its an accident".

The some of us dont believe in abortion is golden as well, its almost as if Buddah had a sister who reads Odd Todd...

So you don't believe in abortion but having sex without any form of birthcontrol is acceptable and I am suppose to believe that?

Is abortion bad cause God doesn't like it, cause last I heard there was no amendment to the pre martial sex ban. So no abortion should be required if there is no sex and no abortion esp if its emaculate conception.

Abortion is nothing more than scrubbing of unwanted cells get over it.

Oh and the Morning after pill isn't abortion.

Oh and I eat yogurt so I have something living on the inside as well, so get out of my way you lesser beings!


August 16, 2007 10:53 AM  
Anonymous B***h said...

Totally true! There's kids that are WAYYYY to big for strollers in strollers! They're like 14 years old!!!!

August 16, 2007 11:00 AM  
Anonymous texasgirl said...

Abortion is muder.

Now...the supreme court right now upholds that you are allowed to murder someone who lives in side you. Whether or not that's the right law is a very complicated legal, moral, and ethical question.

But don't kid yourself: abortion kills a human being.

Now I'm off to take my two beautiful kids to the park, sans stroller.

August 16, 2007 11:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Refflection: you're totally here to add fuel to the fire! And you look like an adolescent trying so hard not to look like a kid and so hard to look like an adult.

Regardless, we're all adolescents regardless of our age. Some are just better at hiding it behind 'maturity' and 'responsibility' - - others are not.

You have more wisdom than your child. Stop trying to be cutesy about it. You've been around and had more experiences which lead to your wisdom. And I'm not saying that your child can't teach you anything, because I'm sure she is... just by being a child!

But you lost me on the whole 'Somalia' reference. Unless you've been there, don't try to compare. In fact, don't try and compare, anyway. Its ridiculous and there's no point being proven. It just makes you sound self-rightous.

Oh, and I'm not trying to fuel a fire either. Yeah, right.

August 16, 2007 11:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

By the way, Refflection, I hope you and your 'life partner' Stephen add something other than making video games and 'loving w/o limits' -- because while we're out here in New York annoying the crap outta one another, you're making Northern California look ridiculous. And I've lived there before. It's a great place. But what I've realized is, judgments are still judgments when you hide behind them. Be and let be? Hah!

August 16, 2007 11:34 AM  
Anonymous Martin said...

Look man, Todd is RIGHT. Those stroller moms are OUT OF CONTROL. I work right by Todd on Court Street in Brooklyn and no matter what, regardless of dog or no dog, they push that stroller through people. There are no 'excuse mes' and there are no second chances. You either get out of the way or you get struck.

Its like some sort of vendetta they have and its weird. The look in the stroller moms' eyes is this weird 'clicked off' look, as if the personality is gone, and its some sort of a race for a million dollars.

And maybe the perspective is that its worth that much to get through the crowd. I'd hate to have a kid in a stroller and take them up and down the subway stairs all the time.

But that's no excuse for good manners. I know its ridiculous to say in NYC, but c'mon. The more accepting of rudeness, the more it'll flourish. The more we say no to it and demand respect, regardless of child, no child, dog, no dog, black, white, red all over... the more of an opportunity we have for making the world a little bit better for ourselves.

And masha, or refflection, or whatever you want to call yourself? You've got a lot of living to do. Spend less time on the blog... more time with the rest of 'reality' - - otherwise, you're just another sad Humboldt Fog.

August 16, 2007 11:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Have some fun and get a really big dog to walk a mean looking one that growls. Then see who flinchs. In fact just stop in the middle of the side walk for a break when stroller mom is heading your way and see what she does with that beast on a leash in her way threatening to devour her nicely packaged morsel on wheels.Add babies to the food group. Right up there with veal.

August 16, 2007 12:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's something about Brooklyn mother's, and they're mean about it. They'll ram you with the stroller on the backs of your legs and act like it's your fault. Great you had a kid, I'm happy for you, but you still have to share the sidewalk.

August 16, 2007 12:31 PM  
Anonymous Husband of stroller mom said...

They're pissed at their husbands 95% of the time for something or other

August 16, 2007 1:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well I could hardly believe it but just last night after having read and contributed to this thread I went to my local grocery Safeway...refflection, I live in N Cal myself...

I was leaving, coming into the parking lot I unlocked my car remotely, making the loud beep sound just as I was turning to go to my car. I was parked next to one of those god forsaken Gigantic SUV's.

The beep sound caused the Mom who was half in the backseat buckling her child to look around. So I now know she knows I am there. Well she is having a struggle getting the kid in his seat. So I wait. I do not say a word...because i know it can take a few moments to get those buckles done. But he is giving her a fuss. So I wait some more. Again, I have not said a single word. Still he is struggling (and by struggling I do not mean he is fighting her, he is just a bit wiggling, he is not even whining, just kind of slumping) She begins to threaten him with toys being taken away at home as consequences of his behavior. I actually think to myself hmmm she actually gives boundaries cool...

And I am waiting again. Well then she starts with a lecture on him about his this point I am done.

I mean I have been VERY VERY patiently giving her extra time...but there are limits...So I do the little cough thing and say POLITELY uhm excuse me can I just get by?

SUV Mom says well it takes me more time to get my child buckled and I am working on it.

I say, uhm yes I understand, but I really have to get going now.

SUV Mom says well fine.

She then just moves out of the way for a moment, I am in my car and pulling away in seconds. Leaving her to deal with her situation.

WHAT THE EFF people! ...and this is what we were discussing here all you BREEDERS!

Even when you are given more it is NEVER ENOUGH! How long should I have waited for her to deal with her life. How much of my life would have been enough to give to her a complete stranger!

Her level of rudeness especially in light of my patience was unreal! Why is my life so much less than hers that she couldn't once she realized she was going to be taking a very long time, have just stopped, said here let me let you through...and then gone around to the other side of her car and dealt with her kid. Or just let me leave and then get back to her life.

But NO the whole world needs to stop rotating because she can't control her 18 month old.

This is why we get angry people. Because I happen to be someone who loves children...truly loves them. I have 10 godkids, because I am the one everyone picks, because I engage with them. PEOPLE I have carseats in my car and don't have my own kids, because that is how often I have kids with me. I in fact was leaving from the grocery to pick up my godkid for a sleepover. I know how it takes time to get everyone situated. But I would never never make someone wait that long for is just plain rude...inconsiderate...and vain.


August 16, 2007 2:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

People are full of themselves. Plain and simple. Look at REFFLECTION for goddsakes! We can talk and talk and talk about how other people matter, but honest to god, when it comes down to it, who are you going to protect? You or a complete stranger? Sure, there are some 'Mother' Theresas out there, but all-in-all, you're going to save your own skin, you're going to want to win, you're going to want to pick up the person you know, and not have to wait around for someone else.

Catherine, cheers for finding out what your LIMITS are. Because that's all it is. One person's ability to deal with something is going to be different than anothers. That's why the woman took all she could, timewise. Because how is she supposed to know how much time is too much time, if you're giving her some? You thought you were giving more than enough, right? How is she supposed to know what your 'more than enough' is compared to someone elses? Common courtesy? I only wish PARENTS TAUGHT THEIR KIDS some throguh EXAMPLE! :) CAPS LOCK RULES!

August 16, 2007 2:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think any sentient being should be able to determine what is a reasonable wait. Again, courtesy. Most people know how long of a pause in a conversation is comfortable...for example.

But I agree with you, that there is little teaching through example.

- Cathryn

August 16, 2007 2:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

On the subject of abortion, it is NOT murder, legally speaking.

The fetus is not counted in the census. The fetus is not a tax deductible dependent. Hence, abortion is NOT murder. The fetus is not a human being until the umbilical cord is cut.

It's very clear. However you see it morally ... legally, the fetus is an appendage of the mother.

August 16, 2007 3:01 PM  
Anonymous TexasGirl said...

On the other side of the coin, I can count at least 6 times when I went grocery shopping while 8 months pregnant with my two-year-old.

Cart FULL of food, two-year-old being VERY well behaved, fat mommy working HARD.

Does ANYONE ask if we need some help unloading groceries into the car? No.

Do ANY of the other drivers pause a moment while we cross the street, pregnant mommy trying to hold the child's hand and push said full cart? No.

Do people feel free to roll their eyes and sigh because it takes me maybe one extra minute to lift two-year-old into his car seat and unpack the groceries into the car while eight months pregnant? Yes.

In fact, did one jerk have the nerve to HONK at me while I worked as quickly as I could to evacuate my parking spot? Yes.

It is called common courtesy, people. Be kind to those in a more difficult situation than you--be they pregnant, dealing with toddlers, using a wheelchair, mentally retarded, whatever.

Take care of your neighbors and do unto others as you'd have done to you.

And that goes for stroller moms, dog walkers, "breeders," and "non-breeders" alike.

August 16, 2007 3:11 PM  
Anonymous TexasGirl said...

And the fetus absolutely is a human being, umbilical cord or no. And killing one is killing one, legal or not.

You can try to justify it to yourself all you want, but that baby is a person in the womb.

I'm not saying that abortion should be illegal. That's a very complicated question that can't be dealt with fully on a website blog.

But abortion does kill a person.

August 16, 2007 3:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Women willingly gave up the rights of the, so called, "weaker sex" back in the 60s/70s with the Women's Movement. Remember, you wanted to be treated as EQUALS not damsels in distress.

Talk to Gloria Steinem if you are unhappy that people don't help you unload your groceries.

August 16, 2007 3:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The baby is NOT a person, legally.

You justify it all you want but according to the law, the fetus doesn't count.

August 16, 2007 3:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As I said, I'm not talking "legally." I'm not interested in legal definitions.

I'm saying what is plain and factual: abortion kills a person, whether recognized under the law or not.

August 16, 2007 3:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does a pregnant mother of two children say, "I have three children?"


She says, "I have two children and one on the way." Even culturally, the fetus is not considered a human being.

August 16, 2007 3:19 PM  
Anonymous TexasGirl said...

And as I also said, it has nothing to do with women's rights or the women's movement.

It's common courtesy which should be extended to all--men, women, babies, etc.

August 16, 2007 3:19 PM  
Anonymous TexasGirl said...

That's not what I say. When I was pregnant, I said "This is my son," pointing to my two-year-old. "And this is my daughter," pointing to my belly.

August 16, 2007 3:20 PM  
Blogger Refflection said...

I have a feeling that I'm one of the only people cited because I have the decency to sign in.

Pro-Anti: I'm a liberal, I hate religion, and I believe in gay marriage. Just because you're a cookie cutter doesn't mean I am. I still don't believe in abortion.

martin: Aren't you blogging right along side me?

And to the rest of you... Like I said before, just because you CAN attack someone doesn't mean you should. All I'm doing is simply defending my right to have children and be respected. I'm not disrespecting anyone, so long as you don't call me a breeder. If you do, then sounds like you believe your mom should have aborted you. It's simple logic.

I do with my free time what I feel like. Aren't we all here on Todd's site so as to poke around at "internet nothingness"? So WTF. I have a baby who I'm caring for 24/7. She's sitting in my lap right now banging on the keyboard as I try to type. I love her with all my heart. So why in the world do you feel like you need to shit on me just to make yourself feel better? I don't own an SUV, I own a Prius. I CARRY MY BABY. I recycle like mad, I buy local and organic. I do my best to put out positive vibes and respect others. Why do you all feel like you can judge me based on a few written words?

Until you push out a baby through your vagina without any pain killers you will never understand what being a mother is like.

August 16, 2007 3:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Texasgirl, you are either a complete social misfit of completely full of shit.

No one says that.

August 16, 2007 3:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now you are about to tell me that "everyone you know" says it.


August 16, 2007 3:24 PM  
Blogger Refflection said...

Who the fuck cares what the law says? Who made the law? People like BUSH? Yeah, like they define my life. A fetus is a person. Until you feel one wiggling around in your stomach you simply don't understand.

August 16, 2007 3:25 PM  
Anonymous TexasGirl said...

Ugh. Saying, "I have two children and one on the way," indicates, linguistically, that "one" is synonymous with "children." Thus, your example doesn't even make sense, because it indicates that the woman DOES refer to her child in the womb as a CHILD.

And what is with all the baby haters on this blog? I don't think that's what Todd's all about.

August 16, 2007 3:26 PM  
Anonymous TexasGirl said...

I'm hardly a social misfit. And hardly full of shit. I'm a normal girl. Graduate degree. Former teacher. Mom of two. Military wife.

I think any demographer would call me pretty freakin normal.

August 16, 2007 3:28 PM  
Blogger Refflection said...

Texasgirl are you on CafeMom? I'll add you if you are 8)

August 16, 2007 3:29 PM  
Anonymous TexasGirl said...

Hi, refflection. I've never heard of CafeMom. I love the picture of your baby!

August 16, 2007 3:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Currently, we all care what the law says.

"Murder" is a legal term. RoevWade could never have remained on the books if abortion were considered murder. It is unconstitutional to murder a civilian who has committed no crime.

Legally, the fetus is part of the mother until the separation is complete. The fetus is not an individual.

Think of the financial chaos our government would face if the fetus were an individual. People could start claiming unborn fertilized eggs as dependents on their tax forms. Consider that a woman has 100s of eggs fertilized in her lifetime that never attach to the uteral wall and get flushed into sanitary napkins. Think of all the stillbirths.

The IRS is not going to stand for all these being claimed as dependents.

August 16, 2007 3:33 PM  
Anonymous Houston said...

I have your back, Texasgirl

August 16, 2007 3:34 PM  
Anonymous TexasGirl said...

So if a man kills his pregnant wife has he killed one person or two?

August 16, 2007 3:35 PM  
Anonymous TexasGirl said...

Howdy, Houston! You can all me Austin!


August 16, 2007 3:36 PM  
Anonymous TexasGirl said...

Can you tell my kiddos are both napping right now?? Hallelujah! But I may have to scoot when one wakes up!

August 16, 2007 3:37 PM  
Blogger Refflection said...

It's a pretty good site for mom networking... I've found a lot of good information on there, especially in the "Earthy Momma's Group". Check it out:

August 16, 2007 3:37 PM  
Anonymous Michie said...

Refflection...just a the fact that I have two adopted children mean that I am "less" of a mother than you...and cannot ever "know what being a mother is truly like?


Michie - don't want a google account...but ahppily accept flame mails at - please do not assume I am not "decent" that I do not have a google account.

August 16, 2007 3:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

With the exception of ONE court case last year, the answer has always been ONE PERSON.

August 16, 2007 3:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Totally sympathize with you but ... I don't have quite the same problem as you do in Syracuse its those stupid Wegmans grocery carts with play cars on the front. They take up the whole aisle and the grocery moms seem to have the same attitude as the stroller moms. Whats wrong with the baby seat in the cart? Thats what I used..also what DID happen to those little umbrella strollers? Maybe its a status thing to parade around with all the latest baby gadgets. But karma exists.... I am a baby boomer and will use up all their Social Security bucks.

August 16, 2007 3:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can I ask why "breeder" causes you such distress? It is accurate you have given birth therefore you have bred...I find it interesting that you take such offense.

August 16, 2007 3:41 PM  
Anonymous TexasGirl said... court case rules differently on "murder" or fetus. Interesting. Even the courts aren't consistent in their definitions.

So maybe it's like I said all along: complicated.

ps--Two year old is awake, and grumpy! : - )

August 16, 2007 3:44 PM  
Anonymous Cathryn said...

I think those car carts are great, as they are better at keeping toddlers in a controlled space rather than running amuck in the aisles.

But that said...yes I have a problem with anyone who runs any grocery cart up the middle of the aisle - silly car one or regular favorite of course the leave it in the middle, walk half way down the aisle away from it and then when I move it over to get come running as if I a stealing Cheerios from your ass.


- Cathryn

August 16, 2007 3:46 PM  
Anonymous Cathryn said...

I have never honked at someone crossing the street.

I have myself and seen others offer to help someone with groceries...and oh by the way the store offers that help too.

Just to be clear about the situation I posted about, this was not a minute or two...I waited 5 minutes while she was dealing with her kid...five minutes... you stand next to your car the next time you are not with your kids and just stand there for five minutes and see how long that is...and by the way had she had courtesy, it took me 30 seconds to get in my car and pull out of the space.

- Cathryn

August 16, 2007 3:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One Hundred Twenty Fifth!!!

August 16, 2007 5:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


August 16, 2007 5:15 PM  
Anonymous Eric said...

Texasgirl, firstly, calling the courts inconsistent based on one court ruling that's different than the others is like saying one of my french fries was burnt, and crying at the McDonald's counter until they give you perfect fries. You're just trying to win an argument! Simple logic aint so simple. Common courtesy aint that common, neither.

Refflection, geez louise. "Who the fuck cares what the law says?" (or how to spell reflection?) Guess who? You do! In fact, you care so much, you come off pretty pissed! Otherwise, I doubt you'd use such strong language. Simple logic. :)

I won't argue w/you about when life starts because it sounds like you're guided by anger and hatred. How about using your experiences as a means to explain your points, and leaving the self-righteous, self-defining crap at the door. You're like someone against guns, yet shooting your mouth off and hurting a lot of people.

And using silencing methods like I don't know how it is until a baby pops out of my vagina, while something else wriggles around in my stomach... I mean, plenty has wriggled around in my stomach. But somehow, I think you want to say if you don't believe the same way I do, well then I have nothing to learn from you.

I think there's value in debate, discussions, and other people's opinion. And I'm a liberal! But I doubt very strongly if 'HATING' like you do across the board for all religions is really that liberal of a concept. If I remember correctly, hate was also used by several conservatives and plenty propagandists. Lucky you, you cookie-cutter!

You're like a goth saying you hate people who conform... wearing your dark eyeliner, dark clothing, and listening to the same music as other goths.

The more you hate, the more blind you are towards your enemies. And the more they can use your hatred against you.

And PLEASE instead of simply buying local and organic and attempting to prove your liberalness, why not grow stuff out in Humboldt instead of contributing in such a cookie-cutter captialistic way? What's happened (unfortunately) is that the more you buy organic, the more you give into a LAW that was created that most farmers can't afford to live up to. Most local farmer's foods are organic, but just not labeled as such. If you're that 'in tune' with your local farmer, I'd ask them if they follow that organic definition that the government created, instead of just using the word in a defensive of your belief system.

Like a vegetarian that knows nothing about the rennet and then how much she loves cheese, blind to the enzyme from the animal's stomach that helps cheese coagulate, these are the days of your life...

There's a fine line between educated, opinionated, and self-righteous. If you're so sure about the whole fetus thing, btw, try looking at the whole thing from the perspective of the OTHER SIDE that you hate so much. Find a way to change people's opinions instead of spouting off like a spoiled liberal brat who eats locally and organically.

Start by being more positive, setting a good example for your baby.

August 16, 2007 5:23 PM  
Anonymous Martin said...

Texas Girl, you're not 100% right, here: "I have two children and one on the way"

Linguistically speaking this says that you have 'one child on the way' - - meaning, that this one child has not yet arrived. I can hypothesize about my children that are yet to be born, 5 years down the line, but they're not here yet either. Not realistically speaking. Hypothetically speaking.

Meaning that at the time you are referencing it, it is not with you yet, therefore it is not with us. No child. No happy meal for that child. But you can still buy it one, as a defensive, if you'd like! :)

You can also argue that Jesus has not yet arrived, but that he is still 'with us', but then you're comparing your child to Jesus, and I'm not so sure that as a Texasgirl, in your Texasworld, that'd be the way to go.

It will arrive. It will be your child when it arrives. However, please try again when it comes to linguistics.

Otherwise, fetus, fetus, fetus, fetus, fetus! :)

August 16, 2007 5:37 PM  
Anonymous TexasGirl said...

Okay, Martin. I'm going to have a martini.

August 16, 2007 6:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wanna hear Todd's opinion on what this tread has turned into!

August 16, 2007 6:08 PM  
Blogger Odd tOdd said...

This is an open forum type place.

Never yay thrilled when a board gets fighty or all neg vibey or rude-- but it is an open place I expect peeps will have opinions that everyone won't dig.

I'd only censor stuff if it goes porny or racist or way way personal something.

My site has always been moody.

Good vibes to y'all! :-)

August 16, 2007 7:29 PM  
Anonymous Vegas Dad said...

Ok Stroller Moms, ask your husband (baby daddy) if he would steer the stroller around a guy walking a dog. I guarantee most will answer that they will get out of the way of the dog walker. If he says he won't push the stroller...then you bred with the wrong guy.

August 16, 2007 7:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yipes..just went outside and watched the sky..there are shooting stars..kinda makes this all seem silly..ok well lets let the stroller moms do their thing.and everyone get on with our lives...whatever..oh I am the one who posted about the car-grocerycarts..shit it really doesn't matter..todd just go around the moms

August 16, 2007 10:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh and my doggy Sam says hi to Roscoe. Ask him next time.


August 16, 2007 10:43 PM  
Blogger A said...

"Yes, we do have the right of way because guess what? We're doing the hardest job there is."

This doesn't sound like you're trying to send out "good vibes" it sounds like you are taking the right without wondering if you should have it or not.

I'd be more than willing to give you the right of way, so long as you don't demand it as your right. I am ultra patient with moms when out and about, but its when we give you an inch and you take a mile, that's when I have the problem.

I'd gladly help Texasgirl with her groceries before I'd move out of my way for an entitled stroller mom.

Wow, Eric. Great post. I'm actually dazed.

August 16, 2007 11:00 PM  
Anonymous Dede said...

As an ex-stroller mom, I feel that a stroller is more maneuverable than a dog on a leash...It's no big deal to veer off to the right a little.

It would be cool if more people followed the simple unwritten rule of walking/hiking:

Keep to the right :-)

I would watch shooting stars, but the sky has been cloudy here in WA all summer long.

August 16, 2007 11:16 PM  
Anonymous TexasGirl said...

Two final thoughts before I go to bed, although these are again about the fetus vs. baby issue rather than the stroller mom thing. (Sorry, Todd, that these two threads have become intertwined.)

Thought one:
Anonymous said earlier that he thought that even cultural language use reinforced the idea that a baby isn's a baby until it is born. I think you'll find just as many cultural statements which indicate people think the baby in the womb is a baby. For example, when I was pregnant with number two, people would ask me, "Oh is that your second baby?" Baby. Baby. Baby. No one ever asked me, "Is that your second fetus?"

Thought two: Anonymous also argued that the baby in the womb is not a person yet because it is dependent upon the umbilical cord for nourishment and, thus, life. Well, I know lots of old people in nursing homes who are dependent upon feeding tubes--umbilical cords, if you will--for nourishment and life. And I don't think anyone would argue that they are not people.

And, a...I'd love the help with groceries. Thanks!


August 16, 2007 11:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thought 3.YO TEXASS girl go try to mindmeld with tammy faye

August 16, 2007 11:43 PM  
Anonymous COVERS FACE IN HANDS said...





August 17, 2007 12:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stroller moms need to realize that they aren't the queen. If I'm walking along on the right side of the sidewalk and a mom comes at me...guess what. She better move to my left or I'm just going to stand in her way. That's how sidewalks work. When I take my kid out for a stroll I don't wander straight down the middle unless there is no one else around. And if someone does come I move to the right. That's just being polite. Because I chose to have a kid doesn't give me the right to do whatever I want. And I agree about Disneyland/world. That is the absolute worst. Can't tell you how many times I've been run over there by some mom that assumed she could do whatever she wanted.

August 17, 2007 10:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mom of 2 kids w/2 dogs here again. I'm in agreement with Vegas dad on all accounts. Children who are able to walk should do so. Parents need to be willing to slow down and walk with their children rather than pushing them around in strollers until they're in grade school. Given the size of some kids in strollers nowadays, it's not hard to see why we have a childhood obesity problem in this country. Also, umbrella strollers should be used whenever possible. But in defense of some of the behemoth strollers out there, you can't use an umbrella stroller until the baby has pretty good sitting ability, usually about 6 months. So most people get suckered into buying a car seat/carrier/stroller combo for the newborn and those things are frigging huge. Still, that doesn't excuse a lack of common courtesy.

Todd, in the unlikely event that I meet up with you on the street someday, I promise to steer my kids over to the side to make way, or if applicable I will do my best to keep my dogs from humping Roscoe and/or you.

August 17, 2007 11:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow. This has really gotten crazy. Todd, I hate to say it, but you're gonna have to except that some women with children think they are the most important thing in the world, then buy all the giant strollers and crap they can or precious "Johnny", and have no consideration whatsoever for anyone else who might be having a bad day.

This is where I stand:
Some people need to get over abortion. It's your choice to do what you will with an unborn fetus, not "God's". Oh, and as to how abortion got in here, I have no idea.

I obviously think some people feel they are to entitled for having added another human being to ths miserable world. I say those with strollers, big or not, need to look out for other people on the sidewalk. It's not that bad to say, "excuse me" is it?

No, I don't have any kids, and I'm rather happy about that at my age, but don't go off on everyone else about "how hard it is to be a parent" to those that aren't. This isn't about having kids, it's about how some mom's are extremely rude to others.
Particularly in NYC.

Keep trying on the sidewalks, Todd. Something interesting might happen one day, especially if you dressed up Roscoe a bit.


P.S.- I think abortion should definately be allowed to a minor girl who got raped when too young to be on birth control. Thoughts?

August 17, 2007 12:46 PM  
Blogger Refflection said...

Rape is never in question. It's probably the main reason why abortion is so readily available. The number of kids that get molested is scary. I personally know at least 10 people who were raped/molested as children, and those are just the people who are able to talk about it. Abortion needs to come along with counseling and options. I've never had one so I don't know the reality of how much information people are given when they come in to get the procedure done. But if someone's been raped they need lots of support and getting an abortion is only the first step to getting their life back on track.

I'm against abortion as birth control. I learned recently that my mother aborted 10 of my siblings. I was shocked. Was it easier to keep getting abortions than to wear a condom? Considering that the heart starts beating at 8 weeks and many mothers don't even know they're pregnant at that point, I feel like it's already a person on their way to life. I don't have the right to take their life away from them. Not everyone agrees. I wonder what the abortion rate comparison is between mothers who have reached at least a 6 month pregnancy, and those who haven't. One's understanding of how life emerges changes drastically once you see the sonogram and feel the baby inside you.

August 17, 2007 4:25 PM  
Anonymous chanteuse said...

Look, I'll be honest. The truth is that people should move out of the way. Swallow your pride and step aside.

August 17, 2007 6:41 PM  
Blogger Sarah said...

I am about as far from soccer mom as you can get, but I do love my stroller. It's biggish and it's a lifesaver on long outings. Sometimes it's the key thing getting me and my son out into the world for the day - that thing drives so smoothly and holds so much. We also have a baby backpack and my husband will wear that so we can be stroller-free, but it's really hard to do by myself and my son is WAY too wiggly and small to be running amok without the stroller. Trust me, you should be glad he's in there and happy rather than testing out his 14-month-old boundaries in an inappropriate place like a busy public sidewalk.

That being said, I am courteous with my stroller and my baby in general. I am very careful to get him out of a crowded place if he's crying or having a fit, I always clean up whatever mess he makes at a restaurant (including food from under the high chair), I try to stay out of people's way with the stroller and I don't assume people want to have a conversation with him even if he really wants to!

However, it is really disheartening to me to be on the receiving end of so much pent-up animosity from strangers. Some people assume all babies are brats and all parents are oblivious and they treat us like miscreants before we have a chance to prove otherwise and it sucks. My baby gets dirty looks when we enter a restaurant (we only go to family-friendly places like Big Boy), people roll their eyes at us when we're trying to get through a non-automatic door, and strangers ask extremely personal, rude questions about my kid and how we're raising him as if they are entitled to this information.

In the end, I just want my child to understand the importance of what I think is the most valuable trait any of us can possess: kindness. I try to turn the other cheek because I want to set a good example. When I'm feeling grumpy myself and not so much in the mood for other people in the world, I work hard to at least put on my game face when we have to go to the grocery or whatever. I try to remember that everyone has bad days and that everyone is basically a good person, even rude, entitled moms who make me feel small at the children's museum ;)

So I will just keep pushing my stroller and trying to not roll over you and I only ask that you do the same in return.

August 17, 2007 11:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Oh, and as to how abortion got in here, I have no idea."

Someone thought having a choice about becoming a parent meant choosing to have an abortion or not.

That person overlooked the fact that, as humans, we are probably the only species on this planet that understands the direct correlation between sex and procreation. We also know how to prevent conception. The subject of abortion was completely moot to the original "entitlement" post.

August 17, 2007 11:16 PM  
Blogger Refflection said...

Kudos, sarah. You said what I meant to say with a much cooler head. It's hard for me to respond tactfully when words like "breeder" and "brat" come up as though it applies to all parents and kids. Some of those comments up top were... well, you know.

August 18, 2007 2:38 AM  
Anonymous Cathryn said...

No it is clear that Sarah would not be the kind of Mom we are talking about here...

I believe that all the comments here have beeen referencing bad experiences people have had. I think the term you used Sarah "pent-up animosity" is truly accurate. Pent-up basically feelings that many have had for quite some time and this blog entry released these feelings.

And unfortuanately Sarah has been one of the few participants here who has acknowledged these feelings...instead we have had a bunch of mothers reinforcing our perceptions of the "entitled" mother.

August 18, 2007 8:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It sounds like Sarah has some pent-up animosity toward non-breeders.

August 18, 2007 9:11 AM  
Anonymous weeze said...

150! LAST!

August 18, 2007 7:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Seems like you guys are forgetting you were once pain in the a$$ children and your mom had to drag you around to. Good thing your moms didn't choose to abort you?

August 18, 2007 10:53 PM  
Anonymous sticktotheissue said...

It seems to me that this is should not be about whether people should or shouldn't be "breeding" but should be about people with entitlement issues. The stroller issue comes down to basic common curtesy and spur of the moment judgement calls. If I'm walking a dog who has stopped to pee and a stroller mom is walking down the sidewalk, the mom should be the one to swerve. If I'm walking down the sidewalk unburdened and the stroller mom is pushing a double stroller with a 5 year old in tow I'll gladly step around her. It's just common curtesy not rocket science. When in doubt, just communicate with an excuse me. It's simple, polite and usually works.

And for the record, no I don't think being a parent is the most important job in the universe. I would argue that being an artist, writer, filmmaker or musician is far more important because you have a story or a message that can touch more people, change lives and encourage others. However, that's just my opinion, which I am entitled too.

Abortion should never have been discussed on this forum. I don't care where anyone stands on the issue, it's not the subject.

August 19, 2007 12:46 PM  
Anonymous tight-lipped smiler said...

Whoever invented those massive rolling stroller/cart/plastic kiddie car carnival ride thingies in Kroger's grocery stores should be drawn and quartered then smeared with jelly and left on an anthill.

August 22, 2007 12:01 PM  
Anonymous Michelle K. - Jacksonville, FL said...

Jeeze Louise!! Todd I bet you never thought you'd generate THIS much controversy, huh?! I would just like to say, that I have no children of my own by choice. HOWEVER, I was raised in a home that was an IN HOME NURSERY for most of my life. I also did raise a child for three years with an ex-boyfriend. All that being said, I still think A LOT of people with children do have this sense of entitlement because they have children and a lot of them think they are the expert go to person on all things to do with children. WHATEVER. You had a kid. You weren't given a PHD on one. Get over yourselves.

August 22, 2007 2:35 PM  
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